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On Michael Moore's assertions in Fahrenheit 9/11:

"Moore asserts that Iraq under Saddam had never attacked or killed or even threatened (his words) any American. I never quite know whether Moore is as ignorant as he looks, or even if that would be humanly possible. Baghdad was for years the official, undisguised home address of Abu Nidal, then the most-wanted gangster in the world, who had been sentenced to death even by the PLO and had blown up airports in Vienna* and Rome. Baghdad was the safe house for the man whose "operation" murdered Leon Klinghoffer. Saddam boasted publicly of his financial sponsorship of suicide bombers in Israel. (Quite a few Americans of all denominations walk the streets of Jerusalem.) In 1991, a large number of Western hostages were taken by the hideous Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and held in terrible conditions for a long time. After that same invasion was repelled—Saddam having killed quite a few Americans and Egyptians and Syrians and Brits in the meantime and having threatened to kill many more—the Iraqi secret police were caught trying to murder former President Bush during his visit to Kuwait. Never mind whether his son should take that personally. (Though why should he not?) Should you and I not resent any foreign dictatorship that attempts to kill one of our retired chief executives? (President Clinton certainly took it that way: He ordered the destruction by cruise missiles of the Baathist "security" headquarters.) Iraqi forces fired, every day, for 10 years, on the aircraft that patrolled the no-fly zones and staved off further genocide in the north and south of the country. In 1993, a certain Mr. Yasin helped mix the chemicals for the bomb at the World Trade Center and then skipped to Iraq, where he remained a guest of the state until the overthrow of Saddam. In 2001, Saddam's regime was the only one in the region that openly celebrated the attacks on New York and Washington and described them as just the beginning of a larger revenge. Its official media regularly spewed out a stream of anti-Semitic incitement. I think one might describe that as "threatening," even if one was narrow enough to think that anti-Semitism only menaces Jews. And it was after, and not before, the 9/11 attacks that Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi moved from Afghanistan to Baghdad and began to plan his now very open and lethal design for a holy and ethnic civil war. On Dec. 1, 2003, the New York Times reported—and the David Kay report had established—that Saddam had been secretly negotiating with the "Dear Leader" Kim Jong-il in a series of secret meetings in Syria, as late as the spring of 2003, to buy a North Korean missile system, and missile-production system, right off the shelf. (This attempt was not uncovered until after the fall of Baghdad, the coalition's presence having meanwhile put an end to the negotiations.)"

- Christopher Hitchens

Not to mention Moore's "saving" of video of American soldiers beating up Iraqi prisoners taken from an Iraqi journalist embedded with US military. He had the footage in September, two months before the story broke to the American public.

ETA: Also, Michael Moore skews Republican congressman's response to create hype.

Alright, who cares to dispute/educate/debate?


( 10 comments — Leave a comment )
Jun. 22nd, 2004 12:10 pm (UTC)
havent seen it yet
Jun. 22nd, 2004 02:53 pm (UTC)
It comes out on Friday. Get AIM at work so I can bug you more.
Jun. 22nd, 2004 04:35 pm (UTC)
eheh, dont I wish
yeah they are evil computer nazis here
I might be able to hook up a telnet based aim client but I'd have to keep it on the down low
Jun. 22nd, 2004 07:08 pm (UTC)
Keep it on the down low! I want to talk to you during day time hours.
(Deleted comment)
Jun. 22nd, 2004 09:54 pm (UTC)
Naturally. I have not found one political article that didn't have an agenda of it's own.

Maybe we should all just stick to science :).
Jun. 23rd, 2004 12:02 am (UTC)
Unfortunately politics is a game of agendas and spin, it always will be and it's going to get substantially worse if things keep going the way they are. I dislike Michael Moore on principle. His work tends not only to present skewed interpretations of facts, but also almost always tends to lead the viewer to a single conclusion without thought. Naturally, most Americans enjoy this, because most Americans dislike thinking. Case in point: MTV.

I, however, look forward to and will enjoy Farenheit 9/11. There are a myriad of reasons for this, not the least of which being my own political agenda. I personally find anyone who could support the current Administration to be ignorant of the facts and not of a political alignment that represents the America that I love. This doesn't mean that they're wrong, it does however mean that I think that they're wrong and would much rather see them doing coke off a 14 year old hookers bare breasts while driving 100mph in a rented Mercedes (the Republican dream!) than voting.

What I enjoy is that he is presenting a great deal of raw footage and facts that do, yes, make President Bush and his choice of actions in the wake of 9/11 look bad. Frankly, I think with the exception of our incursions into Afghanistan, they were. The Patriot Act is filthy disgusting and reactionary legislation intended only to give law enforcement the effective ability to ignore the Fifth Amendment. While I strongly believe Saddam Hussein's regime to be not only cruel but a threat to American interests, I don't think that our actions there were justified. I also don't think asking American taxpayers to handle the financial burden of said war (nevermind the burden of the parents of soldiers sent there who have since perished) was justified. I also think that paying Haliburton for the construction contracts to rebuild huge swaths of Iraq (and once again asking American taxpayers to shoulder the burden) was not justified.

Aside from my personal views, what I like about what Michael Moore is doing is very very simple. He is making a very strong and effective political statement in an election year. He is using methods which are normally employed by large corporations to ensure that his interests are met. He is also doing it all in a way that is perfectly legal and will make him boatloads of money. He is taking a chance to present his views in a massive arena in a way that will inspire political change.

Frankly, it's the same thing that mass media has been doing for years. Just look at the swath of 9/11-related dramas which promote both fear of terrorists and undying loyalty to the American government. He's doing something different, and I think he deserves his chance.

Plus, fuck Bush.
Jun. 23rd, 2004 02:50 am (UTC)
How dare you talk that way about Republicans. Doing coke off of a 14 year old hooker's bare breasts? Are you out of your mind?

Come on. If they're going to do coke off of a hooker, they're going to find a hooker who can *vote*.

I also look forward to Fahrenheit 9/11. The American Media does enough to sugarcoat the state of the world, I'll be glad to see the flipside.

However, in the spirit of the original debate, I present the following Happy Fun media files on my website:

Go to http://www.barkode.com/randomfiles and check out:

- dontloot.wmv
- iraqi_guards_torturing_iraqi_prisoners.wmv
- iraqi_with_rpg_shot.wmv
- iraqi_slaughtering.wmv

and if you haven't seen "apachehit.mpg" yet, watch that one too.

Be glad I'm not posting jpgs.
Jun. 23rd, 2004 04:07 pm (UTC)
You forget that the hooker *never* survives. C'mon man, you can't leave behind evidence.
Jun. 23rd, 2004 08:25 pm (UTC)
The flipside to what? The American media has a liberal bias. All we will be seeing with Fahrenheit is just a more extreme liberal view.

Jun. 23rd, 2004 02:46 pm (UTC)
I couldn't have said it better myself.
( 10 comments — Leave a comment )